The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

For any discussions at all relating to the movies

The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby Mad Serge » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:47 am

I will explain why: in the original timeline (MM1, 2 and 3) Max used to be a cop (MM1) before turning against those who killed his wife and infant. Max then becomes a "scavenger" during MM2 (he lost his car at the end which is very important, it is a powerful moment, there's no coming back from it). In MM3, the context is also important and interesting: some people are trying to rebuild "civilization" (for example, "Bartertown"). Max has made "peace" with himself (his loved ones are dead, there's nothing he can't do nothing about it). He has no car (which shows a change of "lifestyle"). Yet he's still "anti-civilization". He doesn't care if he "lives or not" (according to the novel). So after MM3, the next logical step would have been: Max falls in love with Furiosa (according to Taipan's video, the original Fury Road project from 2003) and maybe be part of "society" again.

Now, here's what they did with the new timeline: according to the comics, after MM3, Max rebuilt his car (which is unrealistic and clashes with the Max from MM3). In the process, he failed to save a mother and her child. He now has PTSD (why would he, they're nobodies, and Max never had PTSD before. Plus, the audience doesn't really care about these characters). Frankly, it feels like fanfiction (sadly). It clearly goes against character development (basically, Max is the one from MM2, albeit crazier). After the comics, there's the movie Fury Road: so it's basically a rehash of MM2. He losts his car (again, this is getting ridiculous). And at the end... He doesn't stay with Furiosa. This is disappointing because, basically, now Max is a mindless drone obsessed about his car. There's no character development, it's regressive (I mean, it doesn't add anything because he also helped people during MM2 & MM3). He has no depth. What could be the plot of the next film? One could guess: the same scenario as FF (Max helps a bunch of people, and that's it). So, frankly, what they done to Max is saddening because he doesn't even seem to be a realistic human being anymore (heck, Furiosa as a character might be more interesting than him at this point).

What do you think?
Mad Serge
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:16 pm

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby AquaCola » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:56 am

Disregard the comics timeline as being canon for Fury Road. Miller has said again and again and again that its not a sequel to Thunderdome and its a new Max with a new backstory. How are people still confusing this.

The next Max film is a prequel set before Fury Road btw.
AquaCola
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:57 am

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby Mad Serge » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:00 am

AquaCola wrote:Disregard the comics timeline as being canon for Fury Road. Miller has said again and again and again that its not a sequel to Thunderdome and its a new Max with a new backstory. How are people still confusing this.

The next Max film is a prequel set before Fury Road btw.

The comics ARE canon (Taipan can confirm), whether you like it or not. Plus,even if you disregard it, there's still FF. Also, in the same movie, Max has a car and PTSD (it is explain why in the comics).
Mad Serge
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:16 pm

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby Taipan » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:18 am

AquaCola:

The comics timeline is canon. It's a new timeline made for Fury Road with Tom Hardy (i like to call it the alternative timeline, as opposed to the old one created for the original trilogy with Mel), so they retroactively put Tom Hardy in all of the previous movies etc, according to it, Fury Road takes place after Thunderdome.

Please watch this video to find out what Fury Road really is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU5wCx5pG88
At last the Vermin had inherited the Earth
User avatar
Taipan
 
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:14 am
Location: The Wasteland

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby Taipan » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:30 am

I partially agree with you, Mad Serge, they wrote Max into a corner by letting him wander the wasteland again.

I wouldn't agree with you about his car, he was still supposed to have it in the original - sequel - version of Fury Road. Max was also going to be completely bonkers in the original version of this movie, they really played down that part in 2015.
There were hints of Max going insane in MMBT, but only in the script. There was a scene in the original script for MMBT where Max hallucinates a ton of crazy imagery when he's going through the desert. Remember that scene in Fury Road where Max has a nightmare and wakes up in the Rig all confused and scared? It was very similar in MMBT but much much longer. In MMBT Max would also have nightmares about his wife, son, Goose etc, so I'm pretty sure they were gearing up to make Max insane in MMBT already. It's just that they never filmed it. It's in the script though.

From that I could understand how he could eventually end up wtih PTSD, maybe the story of Glory and her mother was just the tipping point, on the other hand he hallucinates a whole lot of other people too. Either way, his descent into madness makes sense to me. He also was supposed to have his rebuilt Interceptor in the original version of Fury Road, for the same reasons he has it in the 2015 version - as means of keeping himself sane and not forget who he really is.

The way I see it, I think Miller will have a problem continuing Max's story past Fury Road. The Wasteland is a prequel to Fury Road so he dodged that issue entirely, but if we ever get the 3rd new Mad Max movie, I'd be willing to bet they'd have to cash it all in and end Max's story there. Or maybe not, maybe they'll turn Max into a completely mythological character that will be forever in limbo between being insane at the beginning and on the brink of joining society but rejecting that offer yet again. I think this kind of schtick would wear off really quick.
At last the Vermin had inherited the Earth
User avatar
Taipan
 
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:14 am
Location: The Wasteland

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby Mad Serge » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:57 am

I wouldn't agree with you about his car, he was still supposed to have it in the original - sequel - version of Fury Road.

I hear you but what is bugging me is this: how can someone be insane and yet be capable to build a car from scratch? From what we can tell in this universe, even a sane Max couldn't (because of the lack of resources, which is the whole point of the franchise). So, you're right, but that doesn't mean, frankly, that Max having his car back was a "good idea" to begin with. All in all, I think it could have worked better if MM3 didn't exist (yet it is part of the new timeline) which is in fact, a more polished society (otherwise, the humanity would be extinct if the survivors were spending their time killing each other). There's a lack of consistency. From this viewpoint, Max having his car back is, well, useless. Furthemore, his car gets destroyed at the very beginning of FF.

There were hints of Max going insane in MMBT, but only in the script. There was a scene in the original script for MMBT where Max hallucinates a ton of crazy imagery when he's going through the desert. Remember that scene in Fury Road where Max has a nightmare and wakes up in the Rig all confused and scared? It was very similar in MMBT but much much longer. In MMBT Max would also have nightmares about his wife, son, Goose etc, so I'm pretty sure they were gearing up to make Max insane in MMBT already. It's just that they never filmed it. It's in the script though.

Yes, you are right. But like you said: in the original script of MMBT he had nightmares about people who were relevant to him (which is understandable and normal). Yet, on the other hand, you can't deny that the comics, the movie Fury Road (and video game, apparently, because I haven't played it) are insisting on the mother and her child. It could be argue that the deaths of his wife and infant are now less significant to Max than "this". This isn't good-writing, to be honest.

He also was supposed to have his rebuilt Interceptor in the original version of Fury Road, for the same reasons he has it in the 2015 version - as means of keeping himself sane and not forget who he really is.

I can buy the idea without Max having his car back. ;)

The way I see it, I think Miller will have a problem continuing Max's story past Fury Road

Yes, you made a thread about it (that FF was basically over the top, not believable).

Or maybe not, maybe they'll turn Max into a completely mythological character that will be forever in limbo between being insane at the beginning and on the brink of joining society but rejecting that offer yet again. I think this kind of schtick would wear off really quick.

So are you saying that Max might be the same "bland" character in the next movie(s)? That's what I fear.
Mad Serge
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:16 pm

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby AquaCola » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:54 pm

Mad Serge wrote:The comics ARE canon (Taipan can confirm), whether you like it or not.


Its not about liking it or not its that George has been saying up to a year before Fury Road was released thats its not set after Thunderdome and that its a "new Max with a new back story he hopes to tell one day". I'm going to take George's word on this one being the creator of MM and all, no need to try force a canon in your head when the creator behind the character and films has repeatedly said no its not. Yes originally it was after Thunderdome when Mel was on board but originally Mel was meant to play Max so a lot changed. Just enjoy FR for what it is. A reboot of the character and world. It makes it a lot easier to accept Max's character and world.

You might get a lot of your answers to his character in the prequel film but thats a long way away.
AquaCola
 
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:57 am

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby MWFV8 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:02 am

We need to stop caring about canon because those at the helm don't care about it. Seriously. Taipan has done an incredible job of piecing together the backstory to development. There's really no debate to be had. Mad Max has become director driven fan-fiction. Theres no making sense of the result.

As for the character, I'll say this. Something that's really standing out to me as I see more and more development materials is that Max barely features in it. The obsession has been with the Mad Max universe and not with Max himself. In a way it works, because following him around is a great way to see that fascinating world.

It's something that started with BTTD and the result of having a huge budget with few constraints. Fury Road takes it to another level now CGI makes anything possible. It's a lot easier to ad-lib through a story when you can throw in a spectacular distraction every 15 minutes. It's a lot harder when you've just got a guy in a desert and a few cars to race around. In many ways, Fury Road is really running from itself for most of the story and it's pretty fitting that it comes home when it runs out of ideas.

The thing is, Fury Road isn't trying to be clever. It's Miller and McCarthy thinking like teenagers and selling to teenagers. They're having the time of their lives creating it and people are having the times of their lives watching it.
"Wrong, we fight for a belief. I stay."
User avatar
MWFV8
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 2:06 pm

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby Taipan » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:11 am

This actually brings me to a certain point:
Over the years of studying what happened behind the scenes of Mad Max I've noticed that there is a disconnect between what Miller creates behind the scenes and how he presents it to the whole world.

For instance - he never gives a clear answer about what Fury Road really is. It's been built as a sequel but you'll never have Miller admit to that. It's always the people around him that spill the beans.
Miller will tell you that the shoot was tough but he'll never tell you how much in debt they were and that caused major problems for the whole production.

He never says anything about the Mad Max video game because has nothing to do with it.
He doesn't talk about his battles with WB over the rights to the franchise (The game was a direct result of that - WB's creation).
He'll never say anything about restraining orders that were issued during the Fury Road shoot.

What we hear about Fury Road from him paints a very different picture of what this whole thing really is and how it came about. It's also the reason I highly doubt I'll be ever allowed to release a book about Fury Road because the stories I've been told are off the hook, with money missing, fights on the set, WB's interventions.

So yeah when Miller said a year prior to FR's release that it's not set after Thunderdome, I don't even pay attention to that.
At last the Vermin had inherited the Earth
User avatar
Taipan
 
Posts: 1480
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:14 am
Location: The Wasteland

Re: The new timeline ruined Max as a character.

Postby mahenoguy » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:14 pm

Just a couple of quick points i've noticed in the discussion over Max's Character development. I keep reading about the halcyon days of Max as a character being the road warrior period . but i think once again we are looking back with nostalgia at a film most of us saw as kids . To state that the road warrior is a more realistic take on Max's world than Fury Road is to ignore the contradictory logistics that brought Max to the opening scene . The unworkable fake blower , driving a non-air filtered injected performance engine on dirt roads , no water , 5 mile to the gallon fuel consumption , body mods , fitting roll cage , doing burn-outs....at that's just in the car alone . As to the actual character of Max....yes he is written into a corner a little.....but we would be wrong to think he should be gradually recovering from his madness......in-fact i would expect his mental state to be degenerating like everything else in his world .Although like most I prefer Mel as Max.....I personally believe Tom's max is a better written Character.....I found Mels Character by BTD to be more slick than Mad . Even as a kid i remember questioning why he is even called MAD Max.

As to what is "Canon "as opposed to "What George Said ". If we cant handle fluid continuity in a film set in an alternate future , based of an alternate history then i'm afraid we are expecting too much from our writers and directors in general . They are sort of Damned if they do...Damned if they dont . If they stray from the original it is considered heresy...if they stick to the letter it is considered uninspired. Some of the new direction of Fury Road worked....some didn't . I think it comes down to the way we like to experience art....... Some like to tie the whole thing up into an easy to swallow bundle.....some like to use it as a platform for their own imagination . I think i might lay in the middle.....I don't like things too obvious or too Cryptic
User avatar
mahenoguy
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:00 pm

Next

Return to General Movie Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest